Test, Don’t Guess! The Benefits of Personalizing Your Approach to Gut Healing, with Renee Bergmen

Episode Transcript

Ariel: Hello, hello again, and welcome back to the “Colon Health Podcast.” I am your host, Ariel Bridges. And today, we have Renee Bergmen. Hey, Renee, how’s it going?

Renee: Good. How are you, Ariel?

Ariel: I am well. I have to say I’m, like, partial to your name because Renee is a family name in my family. So I’m like, “Okay, she’s obviously gonna be…

Renee: Oh, I love it.

Ariel: She’s gonna be amazing to chat with.” So I’m super excited to have you here today. Thanks for being here.

Renee: Yeah.

Ariel: And would you mind, just starting off, can you share exactly what it is you do with our audience?

Renee: Absolutely. The long definition of my title is a functional diagnostic nutrition practitioner, which is a lot of words. Basically, what that means is I’m a health detective that helps people get to the root causes of why they have autoimmune disorders, they’re having low energy, their periods are a mess, and their guts are just wreaking havoc on their everyday life. And so we help really use functional labs to get to find those root causes that are causing problems, and then we use that to formulate a plan together, where I work for an entire year with a client helping them really dissect how to unweave the web that has gotten them to the place that they’re in at this time so that they can feel like they have energy again, they can go back to living life in many ways. I tell people, “I teach you to kinda be your own doctor and figure out how to heal yourself based off the principles that we learn together and figure out through all of these labs,” so.

Ariel: I love that, super empowering and helping people to feel like they have the power again. Often, I feel like in a lot of these journeys, people feel helpless or discouraged because they’ve tried different things, and they don’t know what steps to take. Speaking of feeling, like, helpless and discouraged at times, you really have quite the story. Would you mind sharing some of it with our audience, and how did your journey kinda influence you to become this functional diagnostic nutritionist or health detective?

Renee: Yes. So I have kinda two storylines that really influenced choosing to go back to school and to really start a business where I felt like I wanted to help people. First, I have a son who’s adopted and just the love of my life. He’s 12-and-a-half, but when he was born, he had a lot of medical issues. So through the process of having to untangle his journey and what happened, I really came this hippie, crunchy mom that was willing to try any of the things that were listed out there. I was probably one of the first that was all about chia seeds. I remember telling people, “You should eat chia seeds.” And they’re like, “You are gross. This stuff is [inaudible 00:03:18].” I’m like, “No, it’s so great. It’s so good for your gut.” And all these things. So I had kinda already become this person that most of my friends reached out to, were asking a lot of questions. I have this going on. What should I do? How do I fix this?

Flash forward, and about six years ago, I began having massive swelling in my face. I was being told I was in early-onset menopause. My stomach hurt all the time, and I just felt like I wanted to be in bed most days. My depression was through the roof, I was on medication trying to manage that, all these things. I saw doctor after doctor, I had a lot of confusion from people. At one point, there was the diagnosis that I was in early-onset lymphoma. And it was just a really confusing time, and I really question, “Am I gonna be around for my kids to watch them grow up?” Which was a really scary, scary moment for me, and to be with my husband, and just get to live life. I didn’t know that things were gonna get to keep going.

So I ended up seeking out a functional health practitioner that really specialized in autoimmune disorders and cancer and cancer prevention. And I went through the whole process of being fully healed from that. There are many layers to the story, but one of the craziest pieces was that I had implants in my mouth, that I had teeth that I just never had when I was a kid. And those implants, I was allergic to the metals that were in my mouth, and they had massive infection in them that was causing…that’s why my face was swelling. And it was going down into my lymph system, down into my armpit, and down into my breast tissue, causing all this massive inflammation, which really at the root cause in cancer is inflammation. It’s an overproduction of inflammation that turns into cancer cells. That’s kind of, obviously, a very basic, basic statement. But that is how things get really off.

And after I went through that process, first of all, I discovered I had not felt good in probably 15 years, and I just didn’t know it. And it was, like, amazing, the energy that I had, the vitality I had for life, the depression lifting that I had, my ability to just do so much more in life. And so I went back to school and wanted to get trained to help other women and other men that were really struggling through that. And as I went to school, I just learned my story was the tip of the iceberg compared to what so many people out there are struggling through and confused on how to really find healing in their health, especially when it’s not a super clear diagnosis. It’s really easy when we’re told, “You have type 2 diabetes.” They know what to tell you, they know what the treatment plan is, and you know who to see. You know the endocrinologist that you go see. But when it’s involving these gut issues and hormone issues and energy and weird symptoms that don’t line up and inflammation that’s just kind of everywhere, it’s confusing.

And so I learned just what it looked like to truly dive into what functional labs look like, how to really look at hormones and how they function, how they function with each other, their role in how your gut feels, and their role in your energy production. Having a bad period is like…for most women, we’re like, “Well, duh, that’s like my whole life. That’s being a woman, right? Like, that’s just part of it.” And what I learned was that’s not how it has to be. I mean, I’m in my 40s, and I have, like, these, like, nothing periods that I barely even think about. They just kinda happen. And I’m like, “Oh, yeah, that’s there. I mean, it’s a little annoying.” But it used to be just, like, terrible. I felt horrible through my whole period. And that’s what most clients come to me saying, “I feel awful, I wanna throw up, my head hurts, I have horrible cramps, I’m bleeding crazy.” And then as we start talking, they go, “Oh, yeah, my digestion is terrible. And yeah, I don’t poop, or I poop all the time and have diarrhea, and I feel terrible.” I’m sorry that I’m saying that live on this, but you are the colon…

Ariel: No, you’re on the “Colon Health Podcast.” We love and welcome all poop talk here.

Renee: Poop talk is like the core of what I do. I talk so much about people’s poop because it tells so much about the health of what’s going on in our gut and our gut-brain access. And so I just love getting to help people discover all of these things are connected. We are connected beings, and that’s all connected to our soul and our mind. And so we can’t pull that apart from the physical, and all those pieces intertwine together, and we’ve gotta really dig down deep into all the different pieces and how they are intertwined together to create either really great health or making us feel pretty sick and tired and exhausted and feeling terrible, so.

Ariel: Yes. First, thank you so much for sharing your story. I love having the people who come and chat with me share their stories because I feel like a lot of our listeners can often see themselves at different parts of their journey and pieces of your story. And something that you were just saying that I think is so important is a lot of this stuff people are scared to talk about, or ask about, or on the flip side, they just assume that it’s normal, and so they don’t bring it up. So what you’re doing, I think, is so great and necessary and important in helping to open up the conversation and have people realize, “Wait, you do not have to feel this way. What you thought was normal is not actually normal.”

Reena: Absolutely. So true.

Ariel: I wanted to ask you because you started to touch on this. And we had a recent podcast episode with someone else who speaks a lot to the relationship between menstrual and reproductive health and GI symptoms, and I wanted to ask you, what are some of the most common GI issues and symptoms that you’re seeing amongst moms and just women in general that you’re working with, and how can these people take steps to address the things that they’re experiencing?

Renee: Yeah, absolutely. So GI issues are at the core of where a lot of our physical health begin. And so a lot of times, people come to me talking about issues that are what I like to call downstream. And so, like, hormonal issues and energy issues are a little bit further down than gut issues. So a lot of times, I like to back people up and ask a lot of questions about, “How do you feel after you eat? Do you feel like you’re four months pregnant after you eat?” That’s a problem. That means that there are a lot of things happening in your gut, that you’re not processing nutrients appropriately, you’re not breaking fat down. You may be eating foods that you have intolerances to because your gut is leaking, which means that it’s inflamed and letting food particles into your bloodstream, which causes things to really agitate you. So the first one being, like, bloating when you eat, that’s a really big one. And I’m talking, like, anytime you eat. You could eat a beautiful salad with a lovely organic cooked chicken that you roasted. And you’re like, “Oh, my gosh, I feel terrible after I eat that.” That makes no sense, right?

Ariel: Right. Yeah.

Renee: The next GI issue is that you aren’t pooping, that people don’t realize you need to be pooping two to sometimes three times a day to show that your colon is healthy and that your gut is processing food appropriately and that you are taking in the nutrients that you need, particularly fiber, right? And so, if you aren’t pooping, all your body is doing, it’s…I like to describe it as though you have this toilet, and you know that you go to the bathroom on it every day, but every time you flush it, it doesn’t do anything. It just sits there. And so then you just keep going to the bathroom in it. And eventually, what happens, it’s gonna overflow, which is so gross, right? Like, such a gross metaphor. But that’s what happens internally to us when we aren’t pooping. All those toxins just continue to back up and back up and back up into our system, and so we start to feel it in all different areas of our body.

Eventually, our hormones get out of whack because our estrogen is supposed to turn to a water-soluble element so that it can be pooped out. Well, guess what? If you aren’t pooping, it’s just recirculating into your body. And when you have estrogen dominance, it makes you feel inflamed, it makes you have achy joints. It can make you feel like no matter what you do exercise-wise, your body doesn’t really shift or change. Your energy can be super depleted. So pooping, big one, that’s number two. So number one, that you’re bloated after you eat. Number two, are you pooping? If you aren’t pooping, we definitely have to fix that.

And then number three, I think is a big one, is that overall, you just feel symptoms of malaise. Like, you’re tired. Come 2:00 or 3:00 p.m., you’re like, “Oh, it’s taking everything in me to push through the rest of my day. I’ve got to pick up the kids, I feel so exhausted, I’ve got to push through to make dinner, and all I’m thinking is I’m fighting to get to, when do I get to get in bed?” That is a huge sign that you have got things going on. Parasitical activity can cause that. Candida, which is an overgrowth of yeast. Yeast is a big one, man. Yeast is a big one for females, especially if you’ve had babies because sometimes we have things go wrong when we give birth, we’ve been in hospitals, maybe you’ve had an infection or something while you’re pregnant, so antibiotic use has happened, which I’m not anti-antibiotics. They have their place. They’re super important for saving our life. But if we don’t rebalance what they kill off, then yeast takes over, which yeast naturally grows in our body and it’s supposed to be there, but when it goes haywire and overgrows, it causes a myriad of symptoms. It can make you feel foggy.Most people that I know that have a candida issue, they’ll say, “I feel like I’m living in a tunnel. Like, I have tunnel vision all the time, just brain fog. Come 2:00 or 3:00 p.m., I’m so tired. I can hardly move.” That’s all related to our gut and to, essentially, our colon, because our colon connects to our gut, and our gut is the way that we process nutrients, and then our colon is the way that we excrete the toxins.

And so if any of those three things are happening, there are a lot of other symptoms, but those three, in particular, when it comes to GI symptoms, are big red flags. Those are not just, “You know, I drink some coffee and I push through. You know, every once in a while, I take a laxative, and then I go and I get the poop out.” Or, “Yeah, I just found that I maybe only drink protein shakes, and that helps me not to be bloated.” Or, “I do a juice cleanse, and that kind of clears me out for a while, and then the bloating kinda fixes itself for a little bit.” Those are all just, like, quick fixes. The most important thing for you to do to fix and address these issues is, number one, to have a GI-MAP run, which is a functional lab. It’s testing your stool, and it’s looking at 89 different markers to see how are your intestines working?

Are you producing the right immunoglobulins, which is just a big word for your immune system, things that are telling your immune system to do what they’re supposed to do? Do you have candida issues? Do you have worms? Do you have…which is a scary one, I know, but it happens, even if you’ve never traveled outside of the U.S. You could go in a swimming pool, that’s like a public swimming pool, and pick up a parasite, or some worm, or something. They’re just everywhere. And if you aren’t super healthy and your immune system isn’t functioning super easy to pick them up, and then they just wreak havoc on our system, and they make us feel pretty terrible.

So you get this really great picture of where you’re at, things that need to be killed off, and then areas of your gut that need to be built back up. So is your intestinal permeability, which means, does your gut know how to process the food and make sure that it doesn’t go to the wrong places? So that’s your permeability. And so we look at that, and do we need to fix that so that you feel better and so that you process and take out the vitamins and the nutrients that you need from the good foods that you’re eating? So I’m a big proponent of testing. I say test, don’t guess. And I’m sure you probably have talked about that with colon health, man, you got to test. You can’t just take a stab and a guess at what’s going on. It’s super important to look at the labs and know exactly what’s happening in your body. And then number two, one of the biggest things to really fix gut issues are increasing the amount of vegetables you eat. We don’t eat enough vegetables, right?

Ariel: Yes.

Renee: It’s a hard thing to get into our diet. And that may sound really elemental, but it really is one of the key ways that we make our body do what it’s supposed to do. So good fruits and vegetables and good proteins and good fats, our body craves that. It needs it. It’s how it does all its synapses and all of its firing of different things, all the systems throughout our body. It runs off of the fuel that we give it. So if we’re not giving it good vitamins…and how do we get good vitamins? We get it from good fruit and vegetables and healthy proteins and healthy fat. If we’re not giving it that, then our body is just constantly in a state of deficiency. And so, of course, it’s like an engine that doesn’t have any gas. It’s like you’re trying to jump up and down and jump-start it by getting the little bit of gas that’s left over to slosh around so it’ll go get the train moving again. And you just can’t live like that. Your body has to be full of the vitamins and the minerals and the nutrients that it needs to really do all the things that it needs to do, especially in today’s world, the busyness that we have. So those are my two tips is like, find someone that can test for you, a GI-MAP, and that knows how to really work through those things. And then number two, eat good vegetables, 6 to 8 cups a day is what I tell all of my clients is how much you should be getting in vitamin and nutrients.

Ariel: Oh my goodness, you just dropped so many gems. There’s so many things that I wanted to touch on while you were talking, and the first thing is I would be amiss if I didn’t point this out, I don’t know if it was intentional, but when you were going through your series of questions about things that we should be asking ourselves, number two was, am I pooping? You said pooping is number two. That was exactly what you said. And I was like, “You know what, I don’t know if she meant to do that,” but that was amazing. I really appreciated it. And the next…

Renee: There’s nothing like a good poop pun, right?

Ariel: No, to me, it never gets old, which is probably why I’m the host of this podcast.

Renee: That’s right. That’s right.

Ariel: But more importantly, a lot of the things that you said really point to something that I hope our audience is seeing from listening to different episodes of the podcast is there’s so many solutions, I guess, that are maybe pedaled to you or offered that aren’t really getting to the root of what your problem actually is. And it’s so great to be able to work with people like you that can help point you in the right direction, help you understand, oh, you’re feeling XYZ, that’s actually because of this thing, which you probably didn’t even think was related to what you’re experiencing. So you can really have this holistic approach and not just kind of like a Band-Aid approach to just cover the cut on your broken arm, so to speak.

Renee: Yeah, exactly. So true. And then our colon is such an important piece. I don’t know if you’ve ever walked through colon cancer with someone. It’s one of the most grueling and heart-wrenching experiences. And your colon, it’s responsible for so much of the rest of our health because of its key role in getting toxins out of our body. And we kind of just take it for granted, right? We just think, well, everybody poops and it’s kind of this like shameful quiet thing. But, yeah. No, everybody poops. And if you don’t poop, it’s not okay. You don’t feel right, and you’re not gonna be able to do life. And if you don’t poop for a long time and you don’t take care of yourself, the consequences and the implications are so grand and huge. So I love that you’re doing this podcast because colon health is just something that I think is so…it’s just this topic that people are kind of afraid to talk about, right? They don’t wanna, like, really open up about it, and everyone giggles when I say, “So, how are you pooping?” when we get on our calls. And they’re like, “Well…” and I’m like, “No, really, how are you pooping? What is happening? And let’s really talk about that because it’s a key ingredient to making sure that you are very healthy.”

Ariel: Yes. And the more that we can have these conversations, the more that these types of things can be normalized so people can get the help that they need because you just mentioned colon cancer is one of those really, really tough journeys if you, unfortunately, have to walk through that with someone that you know, and it’s wild because it’s one of the cancers that are uniquely preventable with testing like you just mentioned…

Renee: Yes.

Ariel: …test, test, test which brings me to your offerings. I told you this already, I’m obsessed with how you offer all of your services to your clients because I’m a musician, and I think it’s just the coolest thing. And it helps do what we’re talking about right now and make this seem like a relatable, fun, not scary, not intimidating, not embarrassing thing to have testing done to figure out what’s going on in your body so you can take steps to start feeling better. But I would love if you could just explain your approach a bit more. You’ve done a pretty good job of outlining it as we’ve been speaking, but maybe describe what some of these tests you offer are and what they’re for. So when people are scrolling your site, they’re like, “What even is this thing?”

Renee: Yeah, absolutely. So you’re referring on my website, which is Megaphone Functional Health, and it’s called Megaphone because your body is a megaphone. It’s always yelling at you what it actually needs. So it’s a good idea to listen to it. And I love when I was starting my business, my husband’s a musician, and, like you said, talking about these things can be really hard. And so I’m a really fun, goofy person in general. And so the different offerings that I have primarily most people do this, which is the all-in rager, right? Isn’t that great?

Ariel: So fun.

Renee: You wanna do all, you wanna like jump all the way in, into the rager, but when you’re doing that, you’re running all of the tests that…and sometimes you end up running a few extra, but this is what’s included when we first get started. So we do a DUTCH test, which is a cortisol and hormone panel. And what’s beautiful about the DUTCH test is its tests specifically for women at your luteal phase of your cycle, which is about day 19 to 21. And it tells us not just if you are producing estrogen and progesterone, we know that, but how is it relating to one another, and then are all the pathways that it’s supposed to be going down, are those correct? Which is super important, right? So it’s one thing to know that you’re creating it, but it’s another to know, is it actually doing its job?

And that’s where a lot of breakdown comes is when the hormones aren’t doing the right job and they’re going down the wrong pathway, that’s where it gives us a lot of clues into you have these…you’ll hear people talk about C2 cancers. Those are cancers of, like, the breast and the reproductive system because that’s a pathway the hormones slow down so it’s hormone-driven. So it doesn’t test if you have cancer by any means, but it gives us insight. How is your body functioning? And is it functioning well? And do we need to do further investigation on how your hormones are going? So I always really like to talk a lot about the DUTCH test because, especially as women, there’s just a lot of moving parts. There’s a lot of things we have going on, but men…

Ariel: So many.

Renee: …same thing. Men, you have estrogen being formed in your body alongside testosterone. It’s super important to make sure that those are balanced to one another. And if you are dominant in estrogen, you’re gonna have a lot of symptoms of GI issues, you’re gonna feel energy issues, your testosterone’s gonna be too low, you’re gonna have libido complications, you’re gonna have hair loss, you’re gonna have weight gain. So it’s just as important for men too.

And then we look at your metabolic type, which is not everybody should eat the same way. And I know that’s, like, kind of shocking for someone like me to say, but I don’t give everyone the same. This is how you should eat. Same guiding principles of like whole foods. But everything needs different varying ratios of their fat to proteins to carbohydrates based on how their metabolism runs. So this gives us this cool picture of how do you, very specifically, run in your metabolism. And then we talked about the GI-MAP. That’s your stool sample all about your gut bacteria, parasites, yeast, and health screening.

And then we run an HTMA, which is a Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis. And your minerals are the driving force of energy in your body. And many of us don’t really think about that, right? We don’t think about, do I have enough sodium and potassium and magnesium and calcium, and those are four primary minerals. And if those are out of balance, you’re gonna feel pretty crappy. You don’t have energy, you might crave things that you wish you weren’t craving. As for women, a lot of times you want, like, salty fried foods, guess what, you’re deficient in sodium. And this is not just, “Oh, eat some salt.” There are specific ways that you have to turn that engine back on to get your body to absorb the sodium appropriately so that you feel better. So this a big one. This also gives us a lot of insight into what’s going on with people’s thyroid, and your thyroid is a really key component to making sure that your hormones are running appropriately so that your gut is running appropriately so that your colon is running appropriately. Again, we come back to where they’re all tied together. There’s no one system that is not impacted by the other.

And then we look at a food sensitivity panel. And lots of people have had these run. They typically do them and they remove the foods and then they come to me and they go, “I don’t understand, I remove all these foods, and now I have all these other foods that are bugging me.” I’m like, “I know why. It’s because you have a leaky gut.” And as soon as you remove those foods, you didn’t fix the problem. It’s not just the food that is the problem. There are other underlying issues, which is why we need a GI-MAP, why we need a DUTCH test. And we have to heal that gut lining so that you can add all these food back in and have a big variety of food. I am a big proponent of intuitive eating and eating what sounds good within the limits. Like, if McDonald’s sounds good, I’m not gonna tell you, “Sure, yeah, eat McDonald’s all the time,” but I’m not someone that’s like, “Always eat gluten-free and dairy-free forever, and remove this and that from your diet, and remove that,” because the goal is to have as many nutritious foods that are available on this amazing earth for you to consume. But sometimes their body goes awry and food sensitivities make it really hard to enjoy them, but in order to add those back in, you’ve gotta fix the root problem, which is what’s going on with a leaky gut. So if you have a leaky gut, then you’ve got food going to the wrong places. So those are the big functional labs that we run.

I’m also an Enneagram specialist. And I know that Enneagram is, like, all hot right now. And everyone loves all the memes because they’re really funny. But Enneagram is just a cool tool that, like, kind of helps you understand how did you become the way you are and how do you function in relationships with people and with yourself? And the reason that I actually offer this alongside for all of my clients is that we’re embodied souls. And so we are not just physical beings, we are mental beings and we are soul beings. And the Enneagram helps us understand like a lot of the things that happened to us, maybe in childhood, that made us be the way that we are, things that are going on now and how we relate to others, how that can be causing stress. And we know that stress is like this huge component for our health going downhill, especially in the gut. We feel our stress in our gut a lot, right?

When you’re anxious, don’t you feel a little fluttery, your stomach maybe feels uneasy, you might have a hard time eating or you want to just eat everything in sight. That is because our emotions are so tied, right? And so I work through and help people understand where they’re at on Enneagram to kind of understand how do you put together your own feeling journey based on how you function. And you might not be a rigid person, you might be a more go-with-the-flow person in your healing journey. That’s important to know, right? Because if I give you all these, like, rules and laws and you’re super chill and lax, you’re not gonna follow them. So we kind of understand who you are and how to help you formulate your own plan to seek out healing in the best way. So that’s typically what most people do is they work with me for a whole year, they run all the tests. We really look at you as a whole.

But some people come along and they have already had some tests done. Maybe they’ve worked with the naturopath along the way and they’ve run some tests, but they’ve never had someone walk all the way through the process of how do I heal this now? So if that’s the case, sometimes we just have like a couple labs that we’ll run. That’s let’s get this party started or like a mini jam session. Sometimes that’s just me analyzing someone else’s lab work that they’ve already had done and then working to formulate a plan together and maybe one run like one lab that they need that’s kind of like one addition. So I say the DUTCH test is what gets run with that, but it’s kind of different for everyone. Someone may have already had a GI-MAP, or they’ve got some thyroid panels, or they’ve got a smattering of some different pieces to the puzzle, but they haven’t had someone put it all together. So that’s where I might work with someone that’s kind of already worked with someone else, but they didn’t get the full…just because that wasn’t the practitioner’s…that’s not what they do. They kind of just give the test, but I work all the way through to completion of resolving the issues. And so you can come to me, bring stuff that you’ve already had run and we can work together through that. [inaudible 00:30:49] So it’s kinda a long explanation.

Ariel: No, I was just gonna say, I love that, I love how detailed you are with making sure that everyone’s plan and next steps are truly individual to who they are and what their particular needs are. And explaining that, okay, I may be running, like, all of these same tests, but this is gonna bring out a variety of different paths for you based on what your specific results are and who you are as a person. I love that you incorporate the Enneagram. I’m a 1 wing 2.

Renee: Okay.

Ariel: I…

Renee: So you like all the structure, you’re like, “All the structure all day long.”

Ariel: Exactly. I was gonna say you could probably already tell that because I was gonna be like, “Yes, I love that you give people these specific plans for them to follow.” But here at the “Colon Health Podcast,” we’re proponents of really helping everyone see that this truly is like a very multifaceted journey, your colon health, your GI health. The physical and the mental are very much interrelated. So I love that you address all of those different things within your approach. And everybody else, you know this, but I always like to say she mentioned her website and things, and we’re talking about her specific offerings. I’m gonna link all of that in the show note so you’re able to easily just scroll down and do your clicking and investigating. We’re just about out of time, which bums me out. I’m having a blasty blast. Is there anything coming up that you are excited about or that you wanna make sure our listeners know about? Or how can they work with you if that’s something they’re interested in?

Renee: Yeah. So you can certainly DM me on Instagram. I know sometimes that’s the simplest thing. You can go to my website, there’s book a free consultation for us to chat. If you mention that you heard about me from the “Colon Health Podcast,” you can get a $200-off discount in working with me one on one, so. Yeah. So just go ahead and tell me that’s how you found me is through the “Colon Health Podcast,” and you get that discount.

Ariel: Amazing. Everybody, I hope that you wrote that down. That seems like a pretty sweet deal if you ask me. And again, that’s just rounding up our time. Renee, thank you so much again for being here today. I’ve learned so much.

Renee: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having this podcast, it’s such an important topic and I just love when someone sees that and goes after it and is sharing amazing information with the world on how to really keep their colon healthy and flowing with the poop.

Ariel: Yes. With the poop. Yes, so like I say at the end of every podcast, we all have colons. Let’s chat to our research, make sure that we’re taking care of them. We all poop. Let’s embrace the poop. All right, thanks, everyone, we’ll see you next time. Bye.

Renee: Thanks.